HazelNunn.txt

-n -n -n >> Hello, now you're coming to the other edge of the room. >> Testing room 234. >> I always thought that she was so late. [BLANK_AUDIO] >> What day is today again? >> 19th. >> Friday, November the 19th, 1993. This is Randy Norris, Kentucky Historical Society tape. Harlan County, Kentucky. >> What I'd like to do is just let you, if you let you give this to me, and let you just hold it like that, and then it'll pick it up. Can you do that? That way I'm gonna be sitting your whole, but yeah, just like that. >> Okay. >> If you would, just give us your full name. >> Hazelnut. >> And the year you were born? >> 19th, January the 11th, 19th, January the 19th, 1911, I'll get it right off 12th. >> And what community were you born in? >> Lee County, Virginia. >> What was your father's name? >> William Shackford. >> And your mother's name? >> Hadley. >> And what was her maiden name? >> Eldridge. >> Brothers and sisters. How many brothers and sisters? >> I had four sisters and one brother. >> Could you give us their names? Of your sisters and your brother? >> You want their married name? >> Just their first names. >> So Delilah, Ida, Myrtle, Vita, of course I'm Hazelnut. And I had one brother Jim. >> When did your folks move over into Kentucky from Virginia? >> I came to Kentucky when I married when I was 17 years old. >> In 1928? >> Yeah. >> So that was just before the Depression. >> That's right. >> And who did you marry? >> I married Richard Nunn. >> And what year was he born? Remember? >> September 25th, 1906. >> And how many children did you all have? >> Two, a girl and a boy. >> And their names? >> Jack and Peggy. >> And the years they were born? >> My oldest one was a boy he died three years ago. >> When was he born? >> Oh, before you, when was he born? >> '31, wasn't he? >> Yes, '31, I guess. >> And then your daughter was born in... >> '37. >> '37, is that sound? >> Yeah. >> Well, your children then were born during the part of the... >> My son was born to Black Mountain in 1937. And my daughter was born to Coxton. >> I was. >> What was it like growing up in... You grew up in Lee County? >> Yeah. >> Growing up in Lee County. >> Well, I was raised on a big farm. We rented. My father died when I was a baby. >> What did he die from? >> Well, I don't know. >> No. >> No. >> She was six days old. >> Oh. >> And my mother worked for people to raise us children so she never didn't marry anymore. And I grew up on this big farm and that was... I guess that was a happy time because I just had plenty of everything, you know? >> So it was good times? >> Yeah, good times. >> You liked to ride a horse. Can you make you like to ride a horse when you were small? >> Oh, yeah, I loved to ride a horse. >> Let's see, you're... When you moved over here, what was your first... Where did you make your first house? >> You mean when I got married? >> Uh-huh. >> I married 1928 and come to Harlem County. Went to keep a house at Toxton, up the fork, up close to the fork. >> Uh-huh. And... Was it a... Did you all build it or rent it or...? >> We rented. >> Rented your first... How much was your rent? >> Oh, I don't know. I don't remember. >> $5.20 dollars. It's a cold-mining camp. >> And what... Did you move into a cold camp? >> Yeah. >> What was your husband's first job? Was he a miner? >> He's a miner. >> And how long... What company was he working for, do you remember? >> Copper's Cold Company. >> Let's see. >> And how long did you all live there and work with him? >> Well... I guess we lived out there for four years and then we went to Black Mountain. And we lived our short time and then we come back to Toxton and I raise my family there. But my husband did his last work at Blue Diamond Cold Company at Silver Lake up this way. >> How long did he work in the mines altogether? >> 32 years. 34. 34. >> And he retired from the mines? >> That's right. >> Did he have work all the way through to depression in the mines? >> That's right. >> So what was it like growing up and raising kids in the depression? >> Well, I had my first baby during the depression and it was bad. Nobody didn't have anything. But back those days everybody helped everybody else and there was a lot of garbage stuff raised. Not helped, you know, but for his money and work, they wouldn't need work. Not by best way, kid. >> So when you were raising the kids, tell us some interest. How did you feel about the... How'd you feel about the mines, the work that he did in the mines? Did you like working in the mines? Was it just something you did for a living or did he... >> Well, my husband liked mining. But for the family, it was always a dream because you never did know what was going to come home that night or not. And I was always worried, you know, and it was really hard on the family. I never did get used to it. But he worked in the mines until he retired. >> But everybody's always afraid somebody's going to be in trouble. Have you got any good stories about those times? Funny things, sad things, happy things, sad things? >> Well, when Franklin D. Roosevelt got elected president, I handled more money than I had ever seen in my life. He made everything better for the labor and class of people. And there was good times for several years. Everybody had plenty. Everybody's children went to high school and they got the union in here, something that had been of the past. He seemed to it that we got a close shop union. >> And you liked John L. Lewis? >> Oh, yeah. And John L. Lewis, of course, is president of the United Mine Workers. >> How far did you go in school? >> Sixth grade. >> That was in Virginia. Did the schools in Virginia, did the mine have the schools or did the state run the school over there? >> State. >> State, when you moved over here, how far were your kids able to go? >> Those not sure and graduated from high school. >> And they were in, and that was from, so the state had the high schools in it. I know a lot of the mining communities, they said the mines had the schools and they only went up to like the fifth grade. >> And then the high schools, they were up and down the lanes. >> We had the leadership. >> What's your most striking memory of living in the cold camps? Was it having the kids or the work or was there some particular event that really sticks in your mind? >> Well, everybody had children and everybody got along. And when anybody was sick, you didn't have to ask for help. They come in and help you. Everybody helped everybody else. And if your children were sick and you had to be up at night with them, you always had some neighbor with you. And it was, in a way, it was a good life. And in another way, it was a hard life. >> But it was a good life in terms of people, but a hard life in terms of money. >> That's right. >> How did people, you were in the cold camps, how did people feel about coal mining in general and about the companies and what were their feelings? >> Well, sometimes it was better than others. Sometimes you work far was a lot better than others. But I guess it all had to do with the individual. You know, there's good workers and there's workers not so good. And of course, the good workers, they -- >> Well, they just felt that was the only job they could get, though, mom. That's what he's trying to do. >> That was the only thing that was just mining. >> So you say some of the companies were better than others. >> That's right. >> Was Toppers a good company? >> Yeah. >> Were y'all -- >> Yeah, Blue Diamond was a good company. >> Blue Diamond was a good company. I'm trying to get you to think if there's some big event like a flood or, you know, if there's any -- >> We didn't have any floods back then. We've had them since. >> What's caused them, you think? Why do you think they had floods now? >> Well, I don't know that. >> I know a lot of people -- the people down at -- what was it? We were at Cree. Cranes Cree. They seem to think down there is because all the strip mining, you know, the mountains can't hold the water anymore, and that's where all the floods come from. How do you feel about -- how do you think the coal, the industry itself, do you think it's been good for the mountains, bad for the mountains? Has it been a good thing, a bad thing in the past? >> Yeah. >> Was it a -- which one? >> Do you think it was good or bad, mommy, mining for the -- >> Well, it was good for them because that's all they had. >> You feel like if they hadn't exported the coal, there wouldn't have been anything else to do. >> That's right. >> What do you -- today, you know, these days that are -- how do you feel like for the last, I guess, 15 or 20 years coal has been down? Do you see it staying down or is it going to come back, you think, or -- >> Well, it'll never be like it once was. >> It's always going to be -- >> Now, this little town here used to be a booming town. Well, it's like a ghost town there. >> Well, it's not ever going to be like it once was. >> Your husband worked on the railroad also, didn't he? >> No. >> No, he didn't. He didn't work on the railroad. >> Now, that's my fault because I thought, mom, I'd say that he did. >> Okay. So he just -- he mined all this one. What was it like -- one of the things we don't have in the interviews is what was the social life like for women? Did the women get together and do things? Did they have quilting bees? Did they see each other at church? What did the women do for reclaiming? >> Well, there wasn't anything but just church and schools and just everyday meal, run a life. >> Now, didn't you tell me that on the weekends you all would play cards, stuff like that? >> Well, we would do that. >> Well, that's what he -- >> Well, I didn't think of that. >> Mm-hmm. >> On the weekends we would play cards, yeah. >> And the church was the main social -- >> Yeah, church. Everybody's children went to sunscreen. >> Did they have lots of revivals back then? >> Yeah. >> Mostly -- well, what church did you all go to? >> We went to both. We had a Baptist church and a homeless church and we went to both. And Peggy liked the children that went to the homeless church. She liked them, but my son liked the Baptist church the best. But we went to both. We came to both. >> Did they have the baptisms in the River and Eagle? >> Yeah. >> And you and baptize her when they talk to you? >> Yeah. The end of the baptizing in the River. >> Yeah, that's the habit. >> What's it -- looking back on your life, what's it been like if you take it all into -- when did your husband pass away? >> In 1969. >> And what did he die from? >> Yeah. >> How do you -- how do you feel about the health care, the benefits and all those kinds of things? Has it been sufficient? Has it been adequate? Has it not been enough? >> I am well taken care of. >> From his pension? >> That's right. I draw a pension from the UNWA. I draw a black lung and social security. >> And I also have an insurance card. >> That's the one that we're trying to take away a year or two ago. >> I still got it. >> So you feel like you've got everything you need to take care of you. >> That's right. And if you want to know how I feel about the union, it's the only thing that the miners had. >> Obviously, that's the direction you want to go in. >> Let's talk about the union. Was your husband a big union -- >> He certainly was. >> -- sympathizer and organizer? >> He certainly was. >> Tell us some stories about the union. >> Well, now, the longest strike we ever had was when Peggy died was a baby. And it was nine months. And, you know, we're on strike right now. I say we because I'm a cold miner's wife. And I'm still associated with it. In fact, I'm a dues-paying UMWA member. I never worked in the mines. Let me get this clear. How come me to be a member? >> They asked all of us that was drawing a pension to let them take so much money out of our check each month to help keep our hospital cards, our insurance cards. And, of course, we all agreed. So they sent me a card. And on my check each month, it says we've had so many dollars dues. >> So you're a union -- >> I certainly am. >> I'm proud of it. >> When -- back when the union first started organizing, do you remember what year it was and how your husband was involved? Was it a -- was it a scary time? >> Well, they tried to organize. Like I said, President Roosevelt had everything to do with this county getting organized. And until he was elected, they just couldn't get nowhere with the union. You know, they had to slip around and try to organize. But after he got elected, it was an open thing. And the whole thing got organized, the whole county. And that's when times got good. >> He wanted to know what Daddy did. You told me about him guarding the food that you all had and that was distributed here. >> He was a big worker in the union. Like when we was on strike, they didn't give us money like they do nowadays. They give us food. And he always seemed to the food. You know, they had rods that kept it in. And he would guard that food. And, of course, he never missed a picket line. >> What did the women do when the men were on strike? What kind of things did you all do to help out? >> Nothing for us to do. We just keep passing, take care of the children. Get them off to the picket line four o'clock in the morning. >> So the women back then didn't participate like they do now? >> Oh, no. >> Would you go marching in a picket line today? >> If I was young enough, yes. >> You'd go do it now and you'd go do it. >> When you talk about the union, what kind of changes did you see the union bring about in terms of working conditions? From a woman's point of view, did things happen that you felt good about? >> Well, working conditions are a lot better now than they used to be back when she was little. It was really hard and we got a lot of men killed. Working conditions are a lot better now. And, of course, it'll never be bad like it once was. But it used to be bad. >> Since you are an older person now and you were talking about your insurance card, talk a little bit about the insurance coverage. Do you know how important the card is to you? >> It's very important. I couldn't make it without it even with the money that I draw because of it. You know, when you go to the hospital now, it's really expensive. When you go to a doctor, it's really expensive. Well, this card takes care of a doctor's call. When I go to the doctor, it takes care of how to pay $5. And my card takes care of the rest of it. And when I go to the hospital, it takes care of that regardless of what's wrong. But now, they've cut back a little bit. They don't keep a patient as long as they used to, but they still take care of us. >> So you feel like you've got pretty good health care here in Oregon, Danielle? How has health care changed? When you gave birth to your children, did you have a doctor present or a midwife or were you buying your child? >> I had a doctor. >> So were there always doctors in Harlem County? >> Oh, yeah. The coal companies had a doctor and each of them had to pay this doctor so much a month. And then, like you had a baby, that came extra. You had to pay extra for that, but it was only $20. >> How long did it take to pay that $20? >> Well, you -- >> It didn't take a lot. >> Well -- >> Gee, I've closed that on my own. >> Tis a lie. >> I think I was more successful. >> I'll say two months. >> Took a couple of months to pay more. >> I could be wrong, but I guess it took about two months. >> Why did the hospital want it home? You had them at home. >> Right. If you had a chance to sum up your life all in one or two sentences, just one, if you had one thing you'd like to say to the world, what would you like to say to the world? If you could open up the window and everybody would hear you, what would you say if you had -- >> Well, I think you've been lucky with your health and their thing, I say it, but one thing -- >> Yeah. >> What were you thinking about before? If you had one thing that you wanted to say, it doesn't matter about what it is, just anything, about -- [ Pause ] >> Well, if I had it all to go over again, I wouldn't do anything different than what I did. Well, I do. >> That's fine. If that's your one thing you want to say, just the way it is. >> I wouldn't do anything different. >> So, you feel if you look back on your life and you say I had a good life -- >> I did the best I could by my children, and I did the best I could by my neighbors, and I wouldn't change nothing. >> So, get your quote. We always have one quote that we look forward, and that's -- and so, looking back on it all, you feel like you've had a good life then? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, now, like I said, a minor's wife was always worried, but we enjoy their children, and we -- the neighbors enjoyed each other. People -- they were a lot different back then than they are now. People helped each other back then. >> And you and your husband got along pretty good. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's great. That's the end for me. That's all I just wanted to get you down on tape. Thank you so much for the interview. >> Well, I wish I could have been more head but -- >> You were fine. >> -- you did fine. >> -- get away from me, you know. >> Ugh. >> Like I told Gail a while ago, she's told fewer early years are good. [BLANK_AUDIO]