Community Council (CC) meeting held in grincoin#general channel. Meeting duration not explicitly stated but inferred to be around 45-60 mins.
Notes are truncated, and conversations sorted based on topic and not always chronological. Quotes are edited for brevity and clarity, and not always exact.
- anynomous
- cekickafa
- renzokuken
- trinitron
- defistaker
- aglkm
- Discussion and vote on funding for Grinventions/mimblewimble.py.
- Approval of continued funding for Cobragrin/cekickafa for administrative tasks.
- Previous agenda and notes not explicitly referenced in the provided text.
- Current meeting agenda points:
- Grinvention - mimblewimble.py Donation proposal (vote)
- Cobragrin Funding request (vote)
Initial Discussion
anynomous: Let's start with the # TO DO's, specifically the Grinventions donation. I think we gathered enough feedback to continue with a vote discussion.
cekickafa: Yes, agree.
anynomous: I will swap the two agenda topics. The first point is now the Grinvention donation.
renzokuken: As agreed, I will not vote as I am the subject of the vote and I only represent MCM Mike when it comes to feedback, not voting. But I will be present in case if someone has questions.
anynomous: MCM Mike gave his opinion and vote both on the forum and on the Telegram CC channel (Public). He is in favor of donating at least something north of $2,563.08. Personally, I would propose to donate around 10,000 euro, it makes more sense due to @renzokuken living location. This is based on: a) the current work done should be valued at $2,563.08, and b) we also funded secp256k1-zkp-mw (funded for 10k USD)., it makes sense to at least have a similar appreciation for Mimblewimble-py.
trinitron: I vote to approve it at the $2563.08 level. I oppose increasing the amount above $2563.08 and I oppose funding requests "locking" their BTC conversion at the time of request, or any time prior to payout.
anynomous: Could you elaborate on why not lock the conversion rate? Also, it's not a funding request, it's a donation discussion.
trinitron: The post in the forum lists BTC price on 13.02.2024. I oppose this practice. Funding should be in dollars and conversion rate determined at time of payout. It should not be a custodial bitcoin investment mechanism. I think requests should be in dollars and conversion rate determined at time of payout.
anynomous: Okay, I understand your point. Since it's a donation, it would be based on the amount we want to give in euro/dollar and conversion would be based on 1-month average, payment would be right now, so not retrospective.
trinitron: Okay, in this case, donation. But yeah, unless there is some excessive delay, I oppose locking conversion rates at any time prior to payout. The dollar amount should be the constant in my opinion.
renzokuken: I will add that the integrity of the amount will be converted to. I am not a BTC holder and I am not going to sell this donation to buy FIAT goods.
anynomous: @trinitron, can you elaborate why you want to not have the funding exceed
renzokuken: Also I will add that secp256k1-zkp-mw was a lot of work, but it was just a wrapper after all. I also provided all the necessary examples and already provided some wrapped methods to jumpstart the project.
anynomous: Or is that you prefer work to be paid/donated after the work has been done? I do not prefer this since it ends in a lot of micropayments and micromanagement.
cekickafa: Wrapper is both @renzokuken and Nicolas Flamel's contribution afaik.
renzokuken: yes, but I did not request any payment, I provided boilerplate and help and let the integrity of funding go to Nicolas.
trinitron: My opposition to a higher donation only represents 20% of the council vote, so don't let me get in the way of the rest of you continuing the discussion. To me, $2500 is a good token reward. Beyond that we are certainly getting into the territory of what should be a funding request rather than donation.
defistaker: I agree, the python implementation will also have a huge effect on spreading grin.
anynomous: Ok, your opinion is well noted, @trinitron. But as you said, your opinion is only one voice, so we will see if a majority can be reached for 10k euro in funding first.
cekickafa: C++ implementation is donated over 150k euro.
aglkm: I'm in favor to put a maximum reasonable donation amount, not a minimum. We have really few developers, so let's motivate them to continue their work on Grin. Also, CC has lots of funds to spend, 10k euro is not that big amount for them.
trinitron: I have a measure of value that other people might find unfair, which is not how much work goes into a thing, but how useful it is. I am still expecting mimblewimble.py to reach an active user count of 3-5, for which I think $2500 is already generous. If I turned out to be wrong, and it took off and inspired others to build on it, then I would feel that I judged it wrong.
anynomous: Ok, I understand your reasoning.
trinitron: I'll go back to the point above though and let you guys discuss without interjecting though. It's only my opinion and I've spoke to it now.
anynomous: It is noted. We will explore if sufficient support can be found for a 10k euro donation for now.
defistaker: I think 2500$ is very low for a full working mimblewimble implementation if that is what you asking for. I think this donation is for supporting an on-going development.
Voting Process
anynomous: Can I ask from all the other community members present here. Is there support for a 10k euro funding/donation of Grinvention? Please upvote/downvote. Below I will make another vote for the minimum amount of $2563.08 +20% (rounded off) of 3000 euro, as suggested by @trinitron. Note that you can vote for both, a higher amount does not exclude a lower amount.
anynomous: Proposal 1) 10.000 euro in Funding/Donation for Grinvention. Proposal 2) for minimum funding/donation for Grinvention of 3000 euro. Let me clarify, if you vote for 10.000 euro, I assume it means you are also ok with the minimum amount @aglkm. Voting will proceed on the CC public Telegram channel to see if a majority can be found for 10k. @trinitron Do not forget to upvote for the proposal 2) for the minimum amount of 3000 euro ($2563.08 +20%, rounded down).
anynomous: With that we can proceed to agenda topic: 2) Cobragrin Funding request. This request is for continued funding of @cekickafa. Since the workload has decreased in the last months, he worked in the last 2 months without funding. His request is for 5 months of payment which will be used to do all the administration for 1 year. I think it is a fair request. I do not think we can comply with the demands from the community without him. I do not think the other CC members are consistently enough present or available nor willing to take on the administrative burden.
renzokuken: Newsletters written by @cekickafa are the only online presence we have. I rarely see anything else written about Grin anywhere.
anynomous: True, therefore I think it is important not weaken that presence. I vote in favor of continued funding.
trinitron: +1.
defistaker: +1.
renzokuken: +1.
cekickafa: I cant vote for myself, Mokhtar upped if I shall say.
trinitron: I vote to approve this funding request.
cekickafa: Thank you for your trusts.
trinitron: I'll expand a bit for the community to get a feel for my position. I had proposed dissolving the CC. But, if the community does want the CC to continue, as was decided, then it does require organization work.
anynomous: With that, we have reached the minimum threshold of 4 yaays. This funding request has been approved. Thanks for explaining @trinitron.
renzokuken: Another thing is, compared to other projects which create official foundations, companies etc, we lack of people doing stuff like this. Another reason @cekickafa work is important and I only wish there was more initiative like this.
anynomous: @trinitron, Please help us make the CC a meaningful entity to help Grin as a project forward. All proposals and input are welcome. Change and meaning are in our own hands, so it is up to us give the CC a Raison d'etre.
cekickafa: For sure.
trinitron: The fundamental difference is that I am more ok than most community members with a more sleepy grin development. At a slower pace, the overhead cost of running the CC this way would be a bit high. But I know most of the community always wants more a more active grin.
anynomous: I understand. That is also why I actively discouraged funding proposals in the last year. But we try to balance that, the conservation of funds and enabling people who want to work on grin. Let's not forget that the CC only has a small margin (30%) of the original Grin fund. The project will not dry up. Even that 30% we are spending quite conservatively right now. Let's make it count for the decades to come.
Meeting Conclusion
anynomous: With that, I think we completed all agenda topics for today.
cekickafa: Yes, it is completed.
anynomous: In case anyone missed it, there is a python recovery tool. I think more tools using mimbwimble-py will follow. I want to thank you all today for participating in Grin's governance, and hope to see you next time. I will post an update here when the funding of Grinvention/mimblewimble-py has been approved.
cekickafa: Thanks for leading. Thank you all. @aglkm has words I think.
aglkm: For perspective, 23 BTC 50000 = 1150000 (when the donation discussion started on forum), 23 57000 = 1311000 (today). CC is up $161000, and we are discussing whether to donate $3k or $10k.
renzo: Thank you all who support donation for my project, and those who aren't or are supporting a smaller amount, I still thank you for sticking with us, taking care of budgeting and for consideration!
anynomous: Hope we can fund many more useful developments and funding requests in the coming year. Grin++ up for a maintenance update @dtavarez? Let's fix all the remaining bugs 🦾.
- Vote on Grinventions donation proposal will continue on Telegram.
- Implementation of Cobragrin/cekickafa funding.
- Follow up on Grin++ maintenance update.
Meeting adjourned.